From: "ching ik/ djoni"
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:07:44 -0000
Subject: [Dharmajala] Memperkenalkan teman dari suku Sakya
Saya berkunjung ke sebuah website Buddhanet Taiwan, di dalam forum
itu kebetulan ada seorang teman pengunjung yang ternyata adalah
orang dari sisa2 suku Sakya, tapi sekarang tidak disebut suku Sakya
melainkan Newari. Konon suku Sakya sudah dibabat habis oleh
Pangeran Virudhaka 2500 tahun yang lalu. Tapi dari penuturan teman
kita ini, dari pembantaian 70.000 suku Sakya saat itu ternyata ada
sedikit yang sempat lolos. Keturunan suku Sakya masih dapat dijumpai
di Nepal, dan teman kita ini adalah salah satunya.
Di sini tidak bermaksud meninggikan status keturunan Suku Sakya,
karena apalah arti seorang keturuan suku Sakya, toh ajaran Buddha
justru tidak membatasi suku ras agama dll. Tapi yang perlu
diperhatikan di sini adalah bahwa sisa2 keturunan suku Sakya tentu
menyimpan informasi penting karena sebuah suku biasanya
mempertahankan tradisi mereka dan khususnya ini adalah satu satunya
suku di Nepal yang masih berpegang teguh pada tradisi Buddhisme
India khususnya Mahayana.
Yang menarik disini adalah penuturannya yang sangat bermanfaat
mengenai Sutra2 Mahayana dan tradisi chanting yang tentu lebih
terkesan mendekati original mahayana Nepal. Ini menjadi sebuah
informasi penting untuk membandingkan tradisi Theravada yang konon
selalu merasa yang paling original tradisi Buddhis-nya. Namun
perbandingan ini jangan pula dianggap ada maksud ingin menganggap
siapa yang lebih superior atau semacamnya. Semuanya sama sama
berasal dari Buddha Sakyamuni. Ini sudah lebih dari cukup. Ok? ƒº
Berikut kutipan pengenalan dirinya dari sebuah forum dan dialognya
dengan beberapa teman: (ini adalah forum berbahasa mandarin dan
beliau masuk dengan menggunakan bahasa inggris). Saya hanya akan
mengutip penuturan yang inggris, dan mandarin akan terjemahkan dan
ada pula yang saya hilangkan karena ada beberapa tanggapan yang
tidak begitu penting):
Hello Dharma friends,
I am Shakya, Studying Buddhism in United States. I have been
studying Buddhism for a while. I like Buddhism because it teaches us
a scientific approach to tackle daily practices, which are valid and
successful for decades. Here I have joined this group to discuss
some of this issues and happy to share what I know on Buddhism and
want to know more from our dharma friends. Hope we will be
communicating each other successfully.
May we Generate Wisdom and Compassion in our Mind!
All the Best
Christine claimed that you are a descendent of Buddha Shakyamuni's
family. I'm really surprised. To my limited knowledge, all family
members of Buddha Shakyamuni were killed during the war. Those who
survived were monks and nuns. Can you tell us what you know about
your lineage's history? Thanks,
Acually we still believe that we are descendent of Buddha
Shakyamuni's family in Nepal. During all Buddha Shakyamuni period
there are thousands of Sakyas But Virudhaka (The king) killed nearly
70000 Sakyas. Lots of Sakyas escaped. We may be one of them who
escaped from that massacre. Other one story related to our lineage,
It is about the Buddha, making of rules to wear a shoes for monks.
Because after Ananda the disciple of Buddha, eventually he is also
from sakya family. He went to the kathmandu valley to meet his
relatives. After come back from kathmandu his legs were eaten by
show. Buddha saw these things and made a rule to wear shoes if
needed. This story tells us that some of the relatives are living in
kathmandu valley, where we live nowadays. And similarly we had
history of 2000 years that we are worshipping Buddha and being
Buddhist for decades. That points I have mentioned above bring us to
believe that we have some thing relation with Sakyamuni Buddha.
I live in CA. Actually I have been through all kinds of Buddhist
practices. When I am teenager, I have got chance to learn theravada
Buddhism in Nepal. I have also been to the 10 days meditation course
of Arcarya Goenka, according to Vippasana tradition., Which is still
practicing well in all over the world. But after some time my father
introduced to the Tibetan Buddhism, I have been very fortunate to be
born in Buddhist family, I have got chance to listen and got
initiated by several Rinpoches., Who live in Nepal. My Guru or
teachers are especially from Kagyupa and Nyigmapa tradition. But I
am also very like the Gelukpa tradition and Specially Dalai lama's
practice of Compassion was unmatchable.
Dear Shakya, Are you a Neward people ?
Yes, I am Newar. I born in Lalitpur city. My mother language is
It is great! Does your family keep the tradition to chant sutras in
Sanskrit ? It seems you are also a Vajrayana buddhist. I know neward
people keep the tradition of indian Vajrayana in Nepal, even some
Thervada also keep the tradition. Would you please introduce it to
Most of the Sutras are in Sanskrit we usually read and chant.
However, these days some sutras are also available in Newari
language. You are right. We are Vajrayana Buddhist according our old
tradition, but new generations are more attracted to Theravada
tradition because they do not keep the ritual going. Vajrayana
tradition and practices are very highly profound. Nepalese Buddhism
is a unique Buddhism. It is a Vajrayana Buddhism. It is unique
because It is tradition which usually practice in Nalanda, India.
Newari Vajrayana Buddhism preserved the tradition and ritual of
Nalanda. Most of the westerners are very much familiar with these
things. They wrote lots of Book regarding Newari Buddhism.
Dear Bro. Shakya,
I'm a Theravadin from Malaysia.Nice to know you!
May you be well and happy.
Dear Dharma Friends,
I am very pleased to get a warm welcome from all friends. I am very
thankful to all of you. Hope I will continue to talk and post some
knowledge what I know. I am working on a project of Digital Sanskrit
Buddhist Sutras. If some one who are interested to my work they can
ask any question concerning particular topic. I am very happy to
answer. Similarly, everybody can share his or her own knowledge with
So powerful idea you given. Many thanks to it. According to your
speech, Newari Vajrayana Buddhism preserved the tradition and ritual
of Nalanda. It is so exciting message to me. Would you please
introduce books concerning this issue or idea ? Because I am
searching stuffs about "Lost" indian Buddhism such as chanting
progress. Also do you know any tapes or CDs about Newary chanting in
Sanskrit? Actually, there is very few message about Newari Buddhism
in Taiwan. My teacher, a professor in Canada, has mentioned about
that, but he said he must collect the materials in Nepal.
Particularly, he said Newar people didn't teach their tradition to
the others people as their wish.
Excuse me. By the way, do you, Newari people also preserve the
Mahayana tradition of Nalanda ? I can find very few materials
regarding that. I am very appreciated at your help if you can tell
me those book about them. Thank you.
Also, do your people keep chanting Saddharmapuntarikasutra ? Or do
you hear anyone who is practicing the sutra ? Thank you for your
Sorry ! My job is the research on the Chinese version of
Saddharmapuntarikasutra translated by Master Kumarajiva¡]¹§¼¯Ã¹¤°¡^.
Very nice to know you here. For your convinience, you may write to
me via E-mail. Here may I ask a query: what are the 9 dharmas in
Nepal ? I would like to know who the first one giving the topic or
organising them ?
Previously I memtioned about the chanting tape or CDs in Sanskrit.
The first one is the Saddharmapuntrikasutra because I hope to hear
the voice in Sanskrit so that I can follow. I wish the dream which
can come true. If you know where can buy them, I will come to buy
Glad to know about your interest on Newar Buddhism.
Nine Dharmas in Nepal is the 9 Sutras. They are very popular
indeed.They are as follows.
1. Prajnaparamita Sutra
2. Lalitavistara Sutra
3. Saddarmapundrika Sutra
4. Tathagatha Guhyaka sutra
5. Suvarna Prabhasa Sutra
6. Gandhavyuha sutra
7. Lankavatara Sutra
8. Dasa Bhumi Sutra
9. Samadhi raja Sutra
About the book concerning Newar Buddhism and ritual/ pracities, I
have one book to recommend, It was written by By David N. Gellner,
Book title is
Monk, Householder, and Tantric Priest: Newar Buddhism and its
Hierarchy of Ritual
Concerning the Chanting Sutra, There are some Cd or cassettes of
Reciting Namasangati text. and some of Buddhist hymes. But I didn't
know about the sutras reciting tape or Cd which I have metioned
above. I would be glad to answer more question concerning Newar
Very thanks for your answer. Kindly please explan why the 9 dharmas
is so popular in Nepal? I mean is it organised by any master in
Nepal ? By the way, it seems that the 9 dharmas has the Sanskrit
version, where I can buy them ? Thank you.
Nine dharma are very important in Nepal. These are like a 9 precious
jewel for us. Most of the people must have one of sutra in each
home. That¡¦s makes these Sutras very precious indeed. It was not
organized by any master as far as I know. These nines sutras are
very much carrying all the Buddhist teachings. For wisdom,
Prajnaparamita Sutra, compassion stories or Jataka in
Suvarnaprabhasa Sutra. Dasabhumi. Ten stage of Enlightenment.
Similarly Gandavyuha Sutra concerning Sudhana stories. Tathagata
Guhyaka Sutra concerning Buddhist tratric methods. This way These 9
Sutras guide us to lead through the spiritual journey.
About the availability of Sanskrit version of this sutra, basically
these all sutra are originally in Sanskrit language which we can
found in Nepal. There are various versions of printing text
available in market.
JinHan wrote: (mandarin)
Sejauh yang saya ketahui, Suku Newar mungkin adalah satu-satunya
suku yang masih mempertahankan tradisi Buddhisme India. Mereka
merupakan keturunan dari Buddha Sakyamuni (suku Sakya), dan masih
mempertahankan kitab suci Buddhis berbahasa Sankrit dan tata cara
kebaktian bahasa Sanskrit, dan khususnya tradisi Vajrayana. Mereka
menetap di Nepal. Kita masih dapat berjumpa dengan mereka di
Kathmandu. Namun berhubung mereka tidak ingin sembarangan
mengajarkan ajaran mereka kepada orang luar, maka pemahaman orang
luar terhadap mereka masih bersifat misterius. Mengenai ajaran 9
dharma di Nepal, yakni 9 kitab suci, melalui penjelasan dari saudara
Shakya, maka telah jelas ini merupakan tradisi yang dimiliki agama
Buddha Newari di Nepal, termasuk semua jenis kitab suci mahayana.
Sesungguhnya, Tradisi Buddhisme Tibet yang ada sekarang itu sebagian
besar adalah berasal dari suku Newar, termasuk seni Tanka-nya. Pada
sisi lain bahasa yang dimiliki oleh suku Newari sangat berdekatan
dengan bahasa Tibet.
JinHan wrote (inggris) :
Thanks for your precious explanation. It is very important to us.
What you mentioned the custom about each Newari family keep one
sutra, it remind me of a great Tibetant Buddhism yogi and
poet,Master Milaba. His family also keep a sutra ¤jÄ_¿n
¸g"MahaRatnakutasutra"(? sorry I cannot ensure). I think maybe his
family follow this custom which has the relation of Newari.
I am extremely glad to see our friends' interest on Nine Sutras or
Dharmas. They are very highly respected sutras around the world. On
the process of Diffusion of Buddhism from Nalanda to Tibet, most of
the Indian Buddhist Pandits visited Nepal on the way to Tibet. They
spent some times to practice and visit some sacred places of Nepal.
Then they left for Tibet. Most of the renowned Buddhist master like
Marpa, Milarepa and Acarya Atisa Dipamkara Srijnana etc. They stayed
in Nepal and also learned and taught to the Nepalese people. This
way these Masters lineages and practice methods were still being
observed in Nepal. There is no doubt to say that practices methods
of Tibetan Buddhism and Newari Buddhism have lots of common.
However, rituals may be different due to culture differences.
Throught your explanation, I got an important idea. Is it right that
we can say the complete Mahayana sutras consist of 9 dharmas ? Are
they the main structure of tripitika in Nepal Buddhism or India
Can you prove that Newari people has the lineage of Nalanda
Buddhism ? Would you please explan what the tradition of Nalanda
Buddhism ? I mean you may has some records or books which decribe
the tradition of Nalanda Buddhism. Really nalanda in Bihar is very
near to Nepal.
9 dharmas consist of important sutras of Mahayana. But it is not
complete Mahayana sutras. Mahayana sutras are innumerable. For
Mahayanist it is respected as tripitika. But not actually it is a
My claiming has some logic because there are bunches of Nepalese
Buddhist scholars who also got chance to study at Nalanda. They also
trained well. Some of them also got initiated and learned through
Indian Pandita. They are like Amoghvajra, Vagisvara kirti, santasri
etc. They are renowned as well as good practitioner. We believe that
present Vajracaryas of Nepal are still practicing same lineages,
which is passing through the decade by these Masters. Concerning
Nalanda Buddhism, I am talking about Vajrayana tradition which
consists of different kinds of tantric ritual and initiation of
different tantric deity etc.
Similarly Buddhism in Nepal is greatly influence by the Theravada
tradition of Srilanka, Burma and Thailand. Most of the Nepalese
people who are trained in this countries and after they come back to
serve and propagate true teaching of the Buddha all over the world.
Nepal is the land of The Buddha Sakyamuni, It is also a place of
various sacred places like guru Padmasambhava asura cave where he
practices. and Milarepa cave and Svayambhu Stupa and Boudha Stupa
which are a world reknowned Stupa. If friends have any questions
regards these subject Please fill free to ask.
How about the bhikkhuni lineage in Nepal?
In Newar Buddhism, there are no a monks and nuns like others. But we
called household monks. They look like layman. But they practice as
monks and also have given a status of monk. To be called household
monks we have to practice and also have to become monk for four days
and after disrobe, they have to promise to practice according to
bodhisattva vows and spent whole life to practice bodhisattva way of
Similarly present situation of Theravadin tradition in Nepal, we
have no Bhikkhuni lineage. Some of Anagarikas became Bhikkhunis
according to the Chinese Bhikkhuni tradition. But in fact right now
there is no lineage of Theravadin Bhikkhuni in Nepal. But in past
there are some inscriptions in Kathmandu valley showing the presence
of Bhikkuni tradition according to Mahasagika sect. Which proved
that Nepal have a Buddhist monks and nuns who are from the
Mahasagika sect (one of the 18 sects of early Buddhism). After
decades, this tradition also disappeared.
Do you know any temple belong to Mahasamgika Sect. in Nepal right
now? If possible, please tell us.
Or any other temple or monastery belonged other Buddhism Sect. in
traditional Indian Buddhism ?
Thanks for raising interesting question. Right now there is no
Mahasamgika Sect temple. But if I am not mistaken, there is a place
called Hadi gaon (Village) where found one inscription on which
mention about the Mahasamgika Bhikkhus and Bhikkhunis and
contemporary King patronized their Viharas But inscription indicates
that there must be one Vihara of Mahasamgika sect. But present
situation vihara was disappeared.
Secondly, Gu vihara is the most old Vihara of Nepal. I am sure that
the form of practices in this vihara is most likely to the
traditional Indian Buddhism or we can say Nalanda tradition. But
fortunately this Vihara is still survived but the lost its
originality after long period of time. Local name of this temple is
Saako Vajrayogini temple, when I have visited this place. I saw lot
of cave for meditations. It is located in the Hills. One interesting
thing for its popularity is that from this temple there is a way to
go Tibet. Historian believed that this temple must be used for the
shelter for the Buddhist traveler from India to Tibet. At that
particular time this vihara is very famous destination for the
Surprisingly I felt what you said ! Thank you for the precious
information. Actually I am very interested in the history of Indian
Buddhism. Since 2000 I came to visited some Buddhism temple in
China, it led my thinking that some records noted in book became
concrete and live. So I love to do fieldwork and investigation on
the history of Buddhism such as India, China or anywhere in Asia. So
far it has been obvious that the history of Nepal Buddhism is
ignored and out of the exploring range of Buddhism history. Someday
I would like to visit the temples in Nepal to search those lost
Buddhism sections and temples which recorded in history.
Yet my professor said he has the experince to live with a Nawari
family. He told that Newari didn't like to teach Buddhism to other
who is out of their family people. It seems to become an obstacle to
research Newari Buddhism which I called the survived Indian Buddhism.
According to your description , the Gu temple seems the oldest
temple in Nepal. I am curious:what kind of the practise form in that
temple ? Why did you recognise that their form looks like that of
traditional Indian Buddhism or Nalanda Buddhism ? Please tell us
about the form of their practise. Thank you.
In my opinion, the practices in Gu Vihara must be vajrayana
tradition with tantric practices. But this vihara is also a hut for
different Buddhist traveller. This temple must have been a junction
of all Buddhist Sects. Presently, in the temple there we can see a
deity of Vajrayogini. This sybolized that Vajrayana must have taken
major role in this Vihara.
P wrote: (mandarin)
Mohon tanya, si Suku Sakya di forum ini apakah pernah berkunjung ke
Taipei untuk belajar mandarin? Waktunya kira2 di tahun 1994, ada
hubungan dengan beliau yang mengikuti meditasi vipassana dari
I did not learn Chinese in Taiwan. I learned Chinese at
International Language College in Nepal. However, I have been to
Taiwan. I practiced Chinese language when I went there.
About the Vippasana tradition, I like the Goenka's teaching method
of Vippasana. My father and I also took his courses in Nepal. I have
participated ten-day meditation course around year 1996, which is
very impressive too.
What do you think about the pratise form of traditional Indian
Buddhism ? Please draw it according to Mahayana in Nepal Buddhism as
you can see ?
To state briefly, it deals with the following practices of Newar
1.Taking Refuge inTriple Gems
2. Reciting Namasangiti
3. To recite Bhadracarya Pranidhan
4. To offer Preta bali
5. To Circumambulate Caitya, Buddha statues etc.
6. To perform Gurumandala rite
7. To meditate on tutelary deity
8. To recite Prajnaparamita and other Mahayana sutras
9. To recite Danagatha¡¦
10..To perform Bodhisattva practices joyfully
11.To study Buddhist scriptures
12.Offering food to Triple Gems and tutelary deity before eating
13 Offer fivefold prostration to Buddha of ten directions
14 Sleeping in a lion¡¦s posture after meditating on Deity Yoga
But the Most influential thought regarding Indian Buddhist tradition
is that Master Atisha who wrote Bodhisattvakarmadimargavatara also
propounded the concept of the Adikarmika Bodhisattva practice. Since
Atisha was contemporary with Anupamavajra and Advayavajra, both of
them must have borrowed the ideas of lay bodhisattva practice from
By analyzing these references we can conclude that Atisha's teaching
had great influence
on Newar Buddhist tradition too. Atisha's reformation in Buddhist
monasticism is well known in Tibet. He tried his best to uplift
Buddhist monasticism during his sojourn in Nepal. He composed
Caryasamgraha Pradeepa, and Vimalratnalekha nama to enhance the
monastic ideal of Newar Buddhism. He even strongly prohibited the
act of taking initiation of Highest Yoga Tantra for monastics.
Because of short duration of his stay in Nepal he could not
influence to higher degree and strengthen. Later Anupamavajra'
superseded Atisha's influence because of his tantric teachings.
Similarly if we study more we can found different lineage and
pracitices of Indian masters who visited Nepal and taught Buddhist
teachings to the Nepalese people.
Shakya wrote :
Thanks for sending sweet words and wishes. I am very glad to be a
part of this discuss group. I am learning Buddhism so my view and
answer may not perfect as an expert. However, I try my best to
answer correctly. Feel free to correct my mistakes. Being a Shakya
family is nothing special but we have a good chance to practice
Buddhism. Atmosphere and environment are perfect for learning and
practice Buddhism. Nevertheless, main point whatsoever that person
belong from, there is only way that is to purify your mind and
cultivate goods or merits. That is only way to liberate.
Dose any Dakini's linage still exist until today in your tradition?
In Vajrayana tradition, there is a great importance of Dakini. They
are belongs to Sangha family. In Tibetan Buddhism and similarly
Newar Buddhism there is a tradition of worshiping Dakini is quite
often. There is a tradition of calling some people Dakini. Those are
the consorts of the Vajramasters, who are highly advanced in
practice and well qualified.
However, it seems hard to find dakini teachings regarding tsalung
practices. Say, do you know any living dakinis teaching tsalung? Or,
it is included in consort practice only?
The Tsa Lung practice is as very sacred teachings in Tibetan
tradition but I have no idea of its equivalent practices in Newar
Buddhism. However, in Tibetan resources there are some books on
Dakini teachings, which deal with such sacred teachings. They are as
Dakini's Warm Breath: The Feminine Principle in Tibetan Buddhism by
Lady of the Lotus-Born: The Life and Enlightenment of Yeshe Tsogyal
by GYALWA CHANGCHUB
Dakini Teachings by Padmasambhava
Women of Wisdom by Tsultrim Allione
Sky Dancer: The Secret Life & Songs of the Lady Yeshe Tsogyel
by Keith Dowman
Thank you for the reference books. I've read some of them already.
However, books are for reference only. As far as I know, the tsalung
teachings are all given by male Vajramasters only, and none of the
real dakinis give this kind of teaching & I wonder if there's
differences between male & female practices. Do you recommand any
living dakini for answering questions?
As I know, Vajramaster or Rinpoche gives Dakinis teaching to people
but they are the real dakini teaching, as I believe. Obviously, we
could not found any dakinis directly. However, if we practices
seriously according to Vajrayana samaya then there is nothing
difficult to find one.
Dear Dharma friends,
It has been a long time I haven't post any information, Let starts
again, I have been to Monastic retreat. It was very fruitful for me.
I got to know about Chinese
Buddhism Monastic life. It is very challenging through my
experience. I admire all the chinese monks and nuns for practicing
vinaya (rules) so well. I must criticized our Newar
buddhist so called household monk. They have some lack in practicing
vinaya well because of misunderstanding on the rules of vajrayana.
They neglect a lot. One of the most essential feather of the
Buddha teaching is vinaya so if it was neglected by monks and nuns.
The decline always there I must say our Nepalese Buddhism should
learn from the Chinese and Tibetan Buddhism then only we can survive
You may open a new issue or theme to discuss. Such as my replying to
Chi Cheng's topic, I mentioned about the talk between Thero who came
from Sri Lanka and me. We talked about the situation of Buddhism in
Sri Lanka nowadays. After this talk, I learn that I must change my
view about Southern Buddhism, which we called "Hinayana Buddhism".
Actually, I find Sri Lanka Buddhism has a good policy about social
welfare. Monks care the life of people. They preach dharma from door
to door. People often come to temple just like Christan who come to
church on Sunday. Government offers books to children for learning
Buddhism in temples. So many good things in Sri Lanka Buddhism, I
hope I can come to see and learn them in the future.
Hi Shakya, nice to find you here, I think it was Christine that
referred me to this site. Hope all is well. I read all those posts
and I'm really suprised that you've practiced so many different
traditions of Buddhism. I practice Chinese and Tibetan (Nyingmaba)
Buddhism as well under my Master residing here in So. Cal. Still
don't remember who I am? I see you around UWest a lot, or at least
whenever I'm there.
Shakya wrote: (Last posting June 29-2006)
Glad to know you. Thanks for your admiration; actually I am just
learning these different Buddhist traditions. I still need to learn
more so I am here in US. Next time when you come to college, we can
talk more on it. Thanks